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Health Care Reform - Hawk's Eyrie
It's all about releasing your inner sociopath
merhawk
merhawk
Health Care Reform
It would be nice if those who were against government health plans would stop framing the discussion as to be about "lack of choice", "bureaucrats get to ration your health benefits", and "more people will die".

What the hell do they think is happening right now?

The only reason I'm on a plan I like is because I'm on a plan offered by BF's company. My company offers at least 5 options, none of which I consider very palatable. How is the government also having a plan going to make those 5 options - which I already don't like - more palatable? If I didn't have the option to be on my spouse's plan, I'd need to choose from one of those if I wanted to have a health plan.

Bureaucrats already ration my health benefits. If you want to get my anger going, ask me sometime about the nightmare I had to go through to get my previous health provider to approve Celebrex for pain management. It was ok for me to take 4 ibuprofen 4 times a day for weeks on end and work towards destroying my liver; however, as soon as my doctor realized what I had to do and tried to get me on something that worked... oh, that wasn't ok by my health plan. And getting any prescription allergy medicine approved these days? You don't need a prescription. Claritin and Zyrtec are over the counter. Those will be good enough for you. Even if they don't work.

More people will die (I heard a 1 in 5 figure tonight)? It's nice to see that those who are framing the debate currently have health care, and would hate to see that anyone who's already covered might die if their benefits change.

However, what about people who currently don't have health care? Why do you think our life expectancy is so low compared to other countries? One of the reasons is people who don't have health care and can not afford to see a doctor when medically necessary.

We're not talking about people who pulled a muscle and can take over the counter medications for a few weeks until they heal. We're talking about people who might have diabetes. Or broken bones. Or torn ligaments. Or any number of nasty diseases or accidental harm that you can think of. Currently, those people have to self-pay or don't get any help.

We're letting the debate be framed in ways that are both untrue & allow us to go down a rabbit hole. There's 2 fundamental issues here:

Our current health care system costs too much
Not everyone is covered

We need to work on fixing those issues. Not throwing up disingenuous arguments that distract from the actual problem(s).

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10 talons or Rake your talons?
Comments
dawnmipb From: dawnmipb Date: July 21st, 2009 07:46 am (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
What the hell do they think is happening right now?


Whatever it is, it's not happening to them; it's happening to brown people they don't know, who don't matter.

Seriously. This is about people who are afraid they will lose money because of icky brown/red/yellow/dirty poor people who are only icky brown/red/yellow/dirty poor people because they CHOOSE to be.

Yes, this is what they think, at their core. They will couch it in as many high-minded terms as they like, but it boils down to me and mine only--screw the rest of you lazy, filthy bastards.
From: cerebresque Date: July 21st, 2009 12:28 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
Well, as long as we get to make up the other side's motivations, then, down at your core I presume you're a bunch of envy-ridden Communists who don't give a damn if net outcomes worsen and net suffering increases just so long as it's equally shared out among everyone. You can couch it in as many high-minded terms as you like, but it boils down to hating anyone who's ever any better off than anyone else. The lousy rich bastards.

I mean, up until now, I'd always credited you lot with the high-minded (if implementationally wrongheaded) motivations of improving healthcare for all of us, but, hey, sauce for the goose, right?
(Deleted comment)
From: cerebresque Date: July 21st, 2009 12:32 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
Not if I see you first, Citizen.
(Deleted comment)
thetalkingmoose From: thetalkingmoose Date: July 21st, 2009 02:09 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
Let's not forget the robot warriors. Why put human lives in potential harm (and needing our crappy health care system to cover them) when our robot underlings from Cyberdyne Systems and Skynet can do the job for us. What's the worst that can happen?
(Deleted comment)
dawnmipb From: dawnmipb Date: July 22nd, 2009 12:19 am (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
I will apologize here for posting out of turn and out of line. I unfortunately came across Hawk's post right after reading several conservative arguments that basically said everything I said, but in coded language such as "immigrants," "welfare queens," "my money," and so on. It was a kneejerk post dumped in anger.

It doesn't excuse me. I need not to be inflaming the debate with this language.

I am sorry.
merhawk From: merhawk Date: July 22nd, 2009 12:24 am (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
Don't apologize for posting out of turn. If your comments weren't welcome, it would have been filtered so you could not comment.

But you're right, the rhetoric was hot. Then again, mine was a bit steamed, as well, when I put up the post. Please, reframe what you wanted to say if you're still interested - but not delete what was already said.
dawnmipb From: dawnmipb Date: July 22nd, 2009 12:36 am (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
No, no, I won't delete. This is your journal. And besides, it would be cowardly. I said what I said--I can't take it back, delete and pretend it didn't happen. I can only apologize for it.

I really am too upset about this issue to discuss it rationally right now. I know so many people who didn't deserve to get MS or Type I diabetes or cancer and have to struggle every day.

I know that I'm extremely fortunate to be as healthy as I am, but that a serious injury or illness would ruin me financially.

I'm on the way to work right now, but someday, I might be able to talk about Japan. Their system works. And it's completely socialized.
slothman From: slothman Date: July 21st, 2009 05:53 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
Sadly, both political parties answer more to money than to citizens. There are much better systems out there that any sane fiscal conservative would embrace as an overall increase in our nation’s economic efficiency, but the sane fiscal conservatives haven’t had a voice in the Republican party in a very long time.
culfinriel From: culfinriel Date: July 21st, 2009 07:27 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
"Sadly, both political parties answer more to money than to citizens."
Amen.
I also love your icon.
slothman From: slothman Date: July 21st, 2009 07:32 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
Thank you. If you’d like to get money out of politics, you might be interested in clean elections, or even busting up the Democrat-Republican cartel entirely.
10 talons or Rake your talons?