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What's this election mean to you? - Hawk's Eyrie
It's all about releasing your inner sociopath
What's this election mean to you?
I'm getting cookies baked for our election party today. I've made about 12 different thought bubbles, upon which we'll put down what this election means to people (as well as humorous cracks at all the candidates).

It's gotten me thinking about what the election means to other people. Is it hope? Fear? Apathy? Excitement at seeing the first black President? Excitement at seeing the first woman Vice-President? Working to fix the economy? I'm curious what it means to others; especially those who aren't from Silicon Valley. I've turned on Anonymous posting, if anyone would rather post anonymously. Be polite, or you will be deleted and banned.

I've got excitement for this election. No matter who wins, history is made. I don't want history to be made for Palin; she might be a woman, she might claim to speak for women, but she DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ME. Her views are anathema to mine; I don't see a win for her being a win for me, and I don't understand the ex-Hillary supporters who believe voting for her is better than voting for Barack Obama. Those women's views haven't changed overnight, which means it looks like they care about their gender more than they do their beliefs. And that, IMNAAHO, is completely wrong.

I'm not sure Barack Obama will be the best President. However, I am convinced that he's the best choice for President we have, and I will pull the lever for him on Tuesday.

I've also got gut-churning disgust for this election. Proposition 8 disgusts me. Ignore whether you have gay friends who are married. Ignore whether or not you believe gay people should marry. Proposition 8 wants to amend my state constitution to exclude members of our society. The constitution is not there to exclude rights; it's there to include rights. The fact that many on the yes campaign have distorted information - intentionally or because they just accepted distorted information as facts - disturbs me. This isn't to say that the No on 8 people are angels; neither side is. However, the evidence I've seen/heard of anecdotaly does not speak well for the Yes campaign.

Mood: curious

13 talons or Rake your talons?
stinaleigh From: stinaleigh Date: November 2nd, 2008 06:16 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
For me this election means pride. Pride that we are making history no matter what happens. (I don't want Palin either) Pride that no matter what the outcome, there will still be a peaceful transition of power (even if some mob mentality breaks out here or there). Pride that for the majority of our nation, we value the vote itself rather than who/what that vote is for. Pride that likely voter turn out will possibly be the highest ever.

And thankfulness that the election means at least a pause in political campaigning.
From: cerebresque Date: November 2nd, 2008 07:18 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
Grave concern.

Up until three years ago, I lived under the English version of third-way socialism, and that experience has convinced me that it's absolute poison for any nation unwise enough to flirt with it, and an unmitigated disaster for anyone in such a nation who cares particularly for their natural and/or civil rights. And I have heard nothing whatsoever to suggest that its American recension is going to be otherwise.

Not that McCain-Palin offers me anything I want, except for an absence of unmitigated disaster; I don't expect their hypothetical administration to be particularly good for the country, just least bad of the possibilities. But based on what similar ideology has done elsewhere, I'd vote - if I could vote yet - for just about anyone else before Obama-Biden.
buddhacat From: buddhacat Date: November 2nd, 2008 07:38 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
Speaking hypothetically then, would you prefer Bush-Cheney for a third term before Obama-Biden?
From: cerebresque Date: November 2nd, 2008 07:52 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
Yes, but please note that I say this with exactly the same freighting that I can say, for example, that I would rather be shot to death than flogged to death. I.e., while it's true as far as it goes, given the choice, I would much, much prefer neither.
merhawk From: merhawk Date: November 2nd, 2008 07:45 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
What proves to you that there will be any more socialism under Obama/Biden than has already been passed under Bush/Cheney with McCain voting for it?
From: cerebresque Date: November 2nd, 2008 08:04 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
Um, well, that's kind of a complex question, but simplistically, a combination of platform, associates, public statements, writings and past performance?

Not that McCain's a saint in this regard, but I don't think he'll be as bad, based on comparing the results of my analysis of the above.
slothman From: slothman Date: November 2nd, 2008 09:35 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
McCain would merely make drastic spending cutbacks in the middle of a recession, and become as beloved a President as Herbert Hoover.
From: cerebresque Date: November 2nd, 2008 09:38 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
Um, Hoover increased spending in the middle of his recession. He may not have increased it as much as FDR did, later on, but he did increase it.
From: cerebresque Date: November 2nd, 2008 09:42 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
(Of course, from the point of view of the Austrian school, on economics, we have a choice between the candidate whose economic proposals are terrible, and the candidate whose economic proposals are absymal. I endorse neither, per se, even if one is plainly less worse than the other on those grounds.)
merhawk From: merhawk Date: November 2nd, 2008 11:19 pm (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
I'm not asking for a thesis. I'm wondering, in slightly more detail, what statements, etc, make you believe that.
From: cerebresque Date: November 3rd, 2008 03:46 am (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
My problem, here, apart from limited time, is that I'm spoilt for choice. Identifying by type, most statements he makes on the economy make me believe that, with special attention to his ones favoring redistributionism openly, and those which suggest that his underlying theory of economics is zero-sum Marxian economic analysis rather than one of, apologies, but the more correct schools of thought.

As for the rest - well, look, I'm sorry, but I really haven't the time or, frankly, the stomach to go back and review everything he's said or I've incorporated into my views on this point, but I've downloaded and read in detail, a while back, the detailed Blueprint for Change .pdf from his campaign website. And in my opinion, reading through that, it positively reeks of it. Even if I didn't know anything else that he'd ever said, that alone would be enough.

(Which isn't to say it's entirely bad; there are a few things in there I could support; but the economics are atrocious and the statism is even worse.)
weasel2000 From: weasel2000 Date: November 3rd, 2008 02:18 am (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
I vote for foreign policy and defense issues. In that regard, I will vote for John McCain. While I respect Obama and acknowledge the historic possibility he represents; you cannot convince me in any matter that his experience exceeds that of John McCain.

I like McCain, I have liked him since 2000. The Election does represent change, in my analysis; John McCain has done more to change the process than Obama; Obama has hewn close to the democratic platform and will do the same as President. Thats not change, thats just going back to the other side; a side which I don't fully agree with.
some_other_dave From: some_other_dave Date: November 3rd, 2008 06:40 am (UTC) (Permanent Entry Link)
I can't wait for the campaign to be over. All the stupid shit, all the lies, all the divisiveness...

That said, I can't understand why anyone would vote for four more years of the same crap that got us where we are now. Yes, McCain has more experience than Obama. But it's experience at taking us straight down the path we're on right now.

And Palin? She scares the shit out of me. I hate that she is being viewed as a role-model for girls--after all, what position she has now she got because some man (McCain) handed it to her. She didn't earn it. She is also anti-choice and socially ultra-conservative. I believe that she even belongs to a "rapturist" church, who believes that the end of the world will be soon. And frankly, that's the sort of person I want as far away from the Big Red Button as possible.

Obama seems pretty cool. He is socially (relatively) liberal and, at least to my understanding, economically moderate. He is inspirational, and it's been a long time since we had a leader who could inspire anything other than scorn IMHO.

I also prefer Obama's "hope-mongering" to McCain's fear-mongering.
13 talons or Rake your talons?